Below is the written version of TCL’s interview with Erin Helian, director of The Satanic Temple’s Religious Reproductive Rights campaign, about how TST utilizes the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) to argue that reproductive healthcare is a protected religious ritual centered on bodily autonomy.

This interview took place at TST’s Satanic Revival event on May 2nd in Baltimore, Maryland, and has been lightly condensed and edited for clarity. You can find the audio version on our YouTube channel.

Alright, so – jumping right in with my opening question. TST now operates four telehealth clinics, is that correct?

Three, and we’re opening our fourth this year.

Awesome. What are the locations for those? And then walk me through how you got there – from the first clinic opening to this new one.

Sure. So, we have clinics right now in Virginia, Maine, and New Mexico. Our first was in New Mexico; that’s Samuel Alito’s Mom’s Satanic Abortion Clinic. The first one opened because it was sort of a dream of E.M’s- Malcolm’s. When I went to TST, I had already been working in nonprofit, government focused agencies. I did a lot of abortion policy work before I came on board, focusing on how to expand access. So I think it was just sort of a dream come true when we both met and had that same focus.

You could feel the tides already shifting before Roe v Wade was overturned, and there was such a push publicly and politically to limit access that Malcolm and I both immediately started talking about ways that we could prepare and try to fight – using RFRA in our favor was one of the big ways to do that.

When we first started trying to do so in states that already were limiting access, one of the first roadblocks we came across was that attorneys in court would argue, well, you don’t really have any medical experience. You don’t have any clinics in operation. How are you going to operate a clinic here in a state where there is no access, when you have no available clinics, lawyers, nurses, etc. So we said, fine, watch us.

We opened Samuel Alito’s Mom’s Satanic Abortion Clinic first, then we moved on and opened up the next two. We’re opening in Safe States first – we’re still fighting to make sure RFRA is working in our favor, so we’re opening in states that are secured at the moment. And now it’s sort of, in my mind, become sort of a rush to the finish line, like, how many states can we open in? Because the more states we open in, the easier it is. It’s harder to remove a clinic that’s already in operation.

Obviously, that happens, and we see clinics getting bullied, essentially, by our government, but it’s a lot harder to get into states that have already denied that access. So we’re trying to get our foot in the door with as many states as we can, which is why we’ve opened a clinic every year.

Can you explain this legal strategy for the readers who aren’t familiar with the RFRA?

The RFRA is an act that essentially protects religious freedom and the rights of people that participate in certain religions from their government overstepping. What we see, unfortunately, is that it works mainly in the favor of one religion, and that’s Christianity in this country.

TST’s argument is that it shouldn’t be so singular, that RFRA should work in the favor of all religious freedoms. It shouldn’t just be one that’s selected and highlighted and favorited. If RFRA exists in a state, it should exist to protect all religions, and that includes The Satanic Temple, as well as other religions. So that’s our argument for that. We’re essentially trying to exercise RFRA to its umpteenth and make sure that if it works for one, it works for all.

The Satanic Abortion Ritual is central to this legal argument. What is that? How would you describe it to someone who may find the framing concerning, surprising, whatever it may be?

That’s a great question, because it links right into the last one. Utilizing RFRA so it works for all religions means that, as Satanists, as members of TST, we believe in bodily autonomy and our right to have that enforced on a state by state basis.

We believe our members deserve that same religious respect; we believe in their right to an abortion, their right to choice, and therefore RFRA should be able to protect our religious, dearly held beliefs, which means that their body is protected and shouldn’t be violated by a state that doesn’t allow them to make those choices for themselves. We believe that that’s our satanic right and our religious right to do so.

TST has filed challenges in Indiana and Idaho, specifically. What are the state of those cases? Can you give us any updates on what’s going on with those?

Sure, we also had legal battles with the FDA and Texas before that, too. TST has a fantastically notorious reputation for going after legal fights like that. And to be honest, a part of that is that you’re going to lose more often than you win. That was definitely the case when it came to those two states. It didn’t discourage us. We kept fighting as hard as we could, we kept appealing as hard as we could, and now we’re seeing some changes in those states – besides us – that are happening currently.

Of course, we’re going to keep aware of those in order to see if we can expand access to those states. Even though we might have lost some of those battles and appeals, it doesn’t mean that we don’t think that we might have carved out some room for those legal battles to be won by others. And something that I really admired about the executive ministry when I came on board as a member of the executive team was that they don’t necessarily think of a win or a loss that affects us as a win or a loss just for us; it’s how it affects the entire movement.

If we lose something, but that win comes next by someone else, and we carved out some of that space – or we already had some of those legal challenges that they could learn from – that’s a win for all. The reason we’re fighting is because it’s not just about us. It’s about all religions having equal access.

So we see the changes that are happening in some of these states as a win for us too, and we’re hoping that we get to jump in head first into those things as hard as we can and expand access to our members who are in those states and unfortunately, have not been able to receive the treatment that they deserve.

So the clinics’ names, for example, Samuel Alito’s Mom’s Satanic Abortion Clinic, Right to Your Life, are clearly designed to be provocations. What’s the strategic purpose behind that? Can you explain a little bit about them?

The Right to Your Life Clinic was actually voted upon from our members because we wanted them to have a feeling of participation. Since TST exists 100% off of donors, and typically very small donations, which is- we’re so proud of that. I mean, when your membership, in small donations, can keep your entire organization running the way that it has, it just adds to the idea that it’s one big TST family.

So the Right to Your Life Clinic, as a result, was born from members naming it. They voted on it and that was the winning name. The Samuel Alito’s Clinic was definitely- I remember having a late night conversation with E.M; we were coming up with some of the most ridiculous names we could, and that was Malcolm’s choice. At the time I thought it might be too much, but honestly, it grew on me, and before we knew it, we were running with it.

And yeah, it is supposed to be provocative, because we’re making a statement. With the initial clinic, our statement was, if Samuel Alito’s mom had had a choice, maybe we wouldn’t be in the state we are in America today. And granted, that is a dark statement to make, but it is provocative and dark to be thought provoking.

Patient feedback on the telehealth model that you use reportedly shows that people are very pleased, specifically with the accessibility around it. Can you speak a little bit about the importance of accessibility to you?

Oh, I could speak about this forever. I’m going to go onstage after I speak to you, even though I’m not scheduled to, because access is being attacked right now as we speak. Last night, we saw an attack on access to reproductive tele-healthcare specifically, and it’s purposeful. The intent is one that comes from a dark place. It’s not for the betterment of people who are pregnant; it’s to decrease access.

We see this happening, and it’s so sad because we see our fellow abortion clinics and healthcare clinics shutting down around us. We’re very glad that we’re able to keep growing to our fourth clinic to expand access, but there is an attack on these accesses on a constant basis. Like I said, we just saw it last night.

First thing I did this morning was have a meeting with my clinic staff to speak about how we’re going to pivot to using Miso[prostol] only since Mife[pristone] is now no longer allowed to be shipped nationally from any tele-healthcare clinic. So, we’re going to have to really double up on Miso.

There are also comrades of ours working overseas who are still shipping Mife and Miso into the states, but this access is being so openly targeted, and there’s essentially no reason for it except to discourage people from utilizing the accesses that already existed. Obviously, the goal is to force people into birthing situations that they never wanted to be in in the first place.

It’s heartbreaking, and I’m really proud to work for somewhere that constantly pushes to expand that- sorry, I get emotional, but it’s so rare to work for a place that will double down with me.

When I say, “okay, we’re going to double down on Miso, we got to go,” there is no hold back. E.M has been behind me 100% on these moves, and we’re still trying to keep access growing. We have no plans to not open our fourth clinic or to decrease access in any way; if anything, these things only make us want to fight harder.

How does this campaign connect to TST’s broader theology around bodily autonomy and the right to make decisions based on scientific evidence?

Right, I mean, essentially, it’s that simple; the question is the answer itself. We believe everyone – not just our members, but specifically our members because we can legally protect them – have the right to bodily autonomy and their own choices.

We promote scientific reason. If science were to suddenly say that something else would be a better option for abortion care, we would run to do that too. We don’t assume to be the experts. We defer to the experts, and being able to do that in an organization that’s promoting that in tandem with bodily autonomy has given us the ability to open three clinics already. I couldn’t be prouder.

Last couple of questions. What is the most important thing that you want readers who either support abortion access or lack abortion access but aren’t familiar with the legal work that you guys do to understand about the strategies you use?

Love that question. If someone is not in one of the states we serve – you don’t need to necessarily live in those states. We will work with you. If you’re in a hotel, if you need to send things to a PO box, we will figure out a way to assist your access within our legal means.

That includes getting people to those states sometimes. That’s how this actually started. Before we opened Samuel Alito’s Mom’s Satanic Abortion Clinic, we were focusing on patient navigation. We were getting patients out of Texas as much as possible to New Mexico, which is how New Mexico was chosen, because we were already getting people to the border, getting them in a hotel in New Mexico, and then trying to get them aid from there. And then we thought, well, we can do the second half of this too; we’re already doing this.

So, people need to know that there are still resources. We work with another organization now that helps do the job I was doing with patient navigation – what a load off – so we still have the availability to get patients to these states. There are other organizations doing the same and getting patients out of dangerous states to states where they can have care. And there are other organizations that are working in international boundaries, which is a lot more freeing than what TST is doing.

There’s care, even with last night’s bad news, there are options, and we’re not going to stop supplying that care. We’re going to make sure that we can help as many people as possible, which is also why we offer the work for free, because it shouldn’t be limited to $600-$900 treatments. It should be affordable for everyone. In New Mexico, for example, we were the lowest cost option, and I think we still are, at $91 – which doesn’t go to us, it goes to the pharmacy.

It’s important for us to keep it at that rate, because something we noticed was that most of our patients were living below the poverty level. They were struggling, and they needed that help. Often, they would ask for help to have their other children taken with them because they had no childcare to get to these states to get healthcare. It is so important for people to realize that the care that was there last year is still there today, and TST is going to do our best to make sure that stays the same.

Amazing. My last question is – if someone has not heard about The Satanic Temple at all, or if the only thing that they’ve heard are headlines, what would you want them to know about TST in general?

That’s a great question too. My fiance and I were just talking about that this morning. TST is designed to shock and awe and act as an organization that provokes. That can be really fun as an employee, but I think sometimes that also confuses people that might lie in the middle of believing in the same things we do, but don’t necessarily have that same flair for trolling politicians, or whatever it might be. We understand that, but I want them to understand that this is actually the most caring, kind group of people I’ve ever worked with.

I think from the outside looking in, maybe a less alternative, fringe part of America might not understand that this is the kindest place I’ve ever worked. I’ve worked in a lot of political spheres, a lot of nonprofit spheres…I’ve never worked with a kinder, more considerate group of people, and that’s what drives me to stay, no matter how hard it gets. It doesn’t get much better than the people in this room.